tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post6153148859831027741..comments2024-03-27T19:11:37.620-04:00Comments on You Don't Say: Damn you, AP StylebookJohn McIntyrehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03559687583130468871noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-89240873644843137692013-01-15T15:25:44.489-05:002013-01-15T15:25:44.489-05:00The split infinitive is a hoax!!! It was erroneou...The split infinitive is a hoax!!! It was erroneously fabricated by Henry Alford. <br />http://grammar.about.com/od/grammarfaq/f/What-Is-A-Split-Infinitive-And-Whats-Wrong-With-It.htmspritrighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00537882876868707497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-62600684545368587602010-02-27T20:17:58.313-05:002010-02-27T20:17:58.313-05:00I can't tell you how much I agree with you on ...I can't tell you how much I agree with you on this. I was stunned the first time I ran into it. I have been a writer for nearly 30 years and just heard of this when I moved to Texas. NO ONE has been able to give me a single good reason for this "rule."<br /><br />I am happy I didn't go to j-school!Mary B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12891876481594022235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-41475797760647165692009-06-10T23:08:59.433-04:002009-06-10T23:08:59.433-04:00Is the silly prohibition against splitting phrases...Is the silly prohibition against splitting phrases still applied to infinitives, too? <br /><br />An old favorite, famously corrected (wish I could remember the source) to fit the rule: "...to go where no man has gone before...boldly." Doesn't have the same momentum somehow!AnnaLisa Michalskihttp://www.adminmaven.com/wordwise.htmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-55260737676435645352009-06-09T14:34:55.955-04:002009-06-09T14:34:55.955-04:00I'm a newspaper copy editor and have gotten th...I'm a newspaper copy editor and have gotten the impression over the years that we're all keeping alive the pet peeves of our j-school professors. This is one of the peeves. I agree with your post.Beverlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13543690962370750842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-21620622561243834782009-06-06T07:51:54.631-04:002009-06-06T07:51:54.631-04:00Couldn't you just add a couple commas? "...Couldn't you just add a couple commas? "There stood the wagon that we had, early last summer, left by the barn." Almost any awkward sentence can be improved with a comma or two, can't it? Commas are the Worcestershire Sauce of grammar.Buckynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-84782756019658143202009-06-05T19:11:47.246-04:002009-06-05T19:11:47.246-04:00Wait, wait, I know this one!
"There stood th...Wait, wait, I know this one!<br /><br />"There stood the wagon that we had early last autumn left by the barn, asshole."<br /><br />More seriously: "There stood the wagon. Early last autumn we left it by the barn."oldfeministhttp://www.oldfeminist.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-20543976092879364612009-06-05T06:21:39.518-04:002009-06-05T06:21:39.518-04:00You can't really change "There stood the ...You can't really change "There stood the wagon..." into "The wagon was standing [wherever]" because the function of the leading "There" is not adverbial-of-place, it's an explicit syntactic device. "There he is" is not the same as "He is there." Changing the syntax changes the meaning... transparent prose style or not.The Ridger, FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01538111197270563075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-34555005980834963162009-06-04T19:33:52.706-04:002009-06-04T19:33:52.706-04:00Is there a way to save my profile, so I don't ...Is there a way to save my profile, so I don't have to type it in every time?<br /><br />the URL I link to is just to let people know what PCB is. I have no connection to the site other than I live here.PCB Robhttp://panamacityonline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-41251880602879229412009-06-04T19:32:05.279-04:002009-06-04T19:32:05.279-04:00As a tech writer for military publications, I am a...As a tech writer for military publications, I am always confronted with convoluted sentences that don't make much sense. Did that one?<br /><br />Anyway, its always been a point of contention to either follow rigid military style guides (the passive voice rules!) or just write the instructions as plainly as possible. We are always reminded that our readers may not read on the level of a high-school graduate, yet some of the text I get would baffle even the esteemed Professor McIntyre. Or make him laugh out loud.PCB Robhttp://www.panamacityonline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-54883088045199240212009-06-04T15:17:00.909-04:002009-06-04T15:17:00.909-04:00Anyway, although either version of the wagons sent...Anyway, although either version of the <i>wagons</i> sentence may be appropriate for literary effects, a transparent prose style would demand something like "The wagon we left by the barn early last fall was standing [wherever it actually is now]."John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-58366785442794182982009-06-04T14:36:29.223-04:002009-06-04T14:36:29.223-04:00"Exploded," in the same sense that a hoa..."Exploded," in the same sense that a hoax is exploded when it is revealed to be empty.John McIntyrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03559687583130468871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-56023484315152368902009-06-04T14:29:14.385-04:002009-06-04T14:29:14.385-04:00I have always thought the same on this topic, John...I have always thought the same on this topic, John.<br /><br />In your last sentence, is "exploded" idiomatic, or is "exploited" meant?<br /><br />"And you, AP Stylebook, shame, shame for perpetuating a non-rule that has been exploded for decades."Words Between the Spaceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17427800800733923453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-65007572247367963682009-06-04T12:02:32.898-04:002009-06-04T12:02:32.898-04:00Thank you for trying again to get people to revolt...Thank you for trying again to get people to revolt against AP on this ridiculously applied "rule." Though it says "avoid awkward constructions," (with the assumption that not all supposedly "split" are awkward), it sadly leaves it up to whoever's making the decision at the paper to determine which are "awkward," and instead, they proclaim all to be. And then we get things like "The officer quickly had reached for his gun." UGH! It grates on my nerves every time I read it, which is every day since the papers still follow it. There are some novelists who have been poisoned by this nonsense as well. I can't stand it. It's not English! Thank you again. Keep up the good fight!traceychennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-51680528645354758792009-06-04T12:00:45.815-04:002009-06-04T12:00:45.815-04:00And we wonder why so many people have stopped read...And we wonder why so many people have stopped reading newspapers...Cherie Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-79403088948641384482009-06-04T11:35:30.593-04:002009-06-04T11:35:30.593-04:00Words Into Type, p. 286:
POSITION OF MODIFIERS
.....Words Into Type, p. 286:<br /><br />POSITION OF MODIFIERS<br />...<br /><b>Adverbs within verbs.</b> When an adverb is placed within a verb is should regularly follow the first auxiliary, not precede it — <i>may safely be used, will surely come.</i><br /><br />faulty: The short <i>a,</i> for example, always must be modified<br />Better: . . . must always be modified<br /><br />Faulty: There always have been circumstances . . . <br />Better: There have always been circumstances . . .<br /><br /><br />*******<br /><br />I think this rule, and that misconception, persist because there is a class of people who think "It can't be that easy. Good grammar, persnickety usage, HAS to be more complicated than that!"TootsNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08250160403913606481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-13061339137144358172009-06-04T11:31:32.375-04:002009-06-04T11:31:32.375-04:00merely following some pedant's rule that you h...<i>merely following some pedant's rule that you haven't unearthed yet. </i><br /><br />If Mr. McIntyre and the crew at Language Log hasn't unearthed that pedant's rule, it doesn't exist. Or, it exists only for the complete idiot that made it up.<br /><br />And the AP ought not to be perpetuating rules that are based on one or two stupid people. (ask me about "1900s" sometime)<br /><br />I finally got the crew I worked with at Information Week to STOP placing the "also" in the wrong place by blinding them with jargon.<br /><br />I would simply chant, "The adverb follows the auxiliary verb," and the never argued with me again.TootsNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08250160403913606481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-53838210448795858962009-06-04T11:06:18.885-04:002009-06-04T11:06:18.885-04:00I don't think AP's entry is so bad, as the...I don't think AP's entry is so bad, as the spirit of what they're trying to say is "make it easier for the reader," which we can probably all agree is an admirable goal.<br /><br />It's generally good practice to avoid awkwardness; they aren't saying to adhere strictly to the rule but rather to keep it in mind when the sentence becomes cumbersome or awkward.<br /><br />Or am I missing something?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6051744883907551402.post-8974905737796831562009-06-04T11:04:11.079-04:002009-06-04T11:04:11.079-04:00While I agree with you about the non-existent rule...While I agree with you about the non-existent rule, I think it's unfair to bash the AP, which, I suspect, is merely following some pedant's rule that you haven't unearthed yet. God knows, the academy is filled with pedants who know only what their pedants taught them. <br /><br />I caught on to their game as an undergrad when one of them, noticing my short paragraphs and linking them and me to newspaper writing, said I should have 3 paragraphs to a page. (Double spaced, of course.) <br /><br />What kind of rule is that? <br /><br />But I digress, like a good pedant should. (I mean, as...)The Spectatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04957037068796320437noreply@blogger.com